I feel like I could have written this myself. As a new author, I'm finding that marketing is way tougher than I initially thought. Do you have a local writers' group? That has been really helpful for me in terms of being connected with a writing community and potential readers. Keep up the good work. :)
I’m glad this resonated with you. I don’t have a writers group (unless you count the regulars at my local Starbucks). To be honest I’ve never looked into it but I appreciate the suggestion.
I’m sorry that happened. I go back and forth between being amazed that anyone actually reads my posts and feeling like I could never compete with people that have even 100 subscribers.
Anyway, thanks for stopping by and I hope you keep writing fiction even if it isn’t posted here.
So I’m both encouraged and frightened by your comment. I can still (mostly) count my subscribers using my fingers and toes, and you have… a bit more than that 😁
On one hand, I think: “Oh wow, SHE still struggles with this? We are so similar!”
On the other hand, I think: “Oh wow, she STILL struggles with this? I will never escape this cursed cycle.”
Six of one, half a dozen of the other as they say 🤷♂️
Thanks for the comment and I hope you have a great day.
I’m pretty sure it works that way all the way to the top 😝I’d imagine it’s the ones who don’t double down afterwards that don’t get there. (“There” being an ever moving target—“reach for the moon and you’ll a land amidst the stars” etc…)
One thing I've been wondering is whether even a fiction post that's a few thousand words is still too long for the time-constrained, over-subscribed, over-worked, under-slept would-be-reader. I often find I get two or three paragraphs in before I realize I have things to do.
For fiction podcasts the problems are similar: no one's going to start in the middle, and once you've done enough, people are going to make the gut-check as to whether they have enough time to even start something new.
I think this is where brief, strong recaps play a role. I wish more writers on Substack assumed no one is going to go back and read anything else, that the reader is going to start on that one post - and so every post must be designed to be a great first place to start.
I also frankly wish more substack writers recorded their work and added the audio to each post. Consider that would-be readers must choose whether to read or do literally anything else. But if it's also a podcast, they can get some shit done.
So much to digest here. I think you have some amazing suggestions even though I’m guilty of most of the fiction sins you’ve listed: longish posts, no recaps, no audio.
This likely deserves a longer conversation than is available via comments but:
- Totally agree about audio. I plan to go back and record each chapter eventually. My problem is that I have a tendency to shoot for the moon so I get bogged down in the minutiae of mics and voices and ambience even though all I really need to do is record a simple transcription.
- Shorter posts: I only post once a week at the moment. Shortening the posts even further would double/triple the roll out of the story (that seems like a negative to me from a readers perspective but I could be wrong). I could increase my release rate instead but I feel like that contributes to the “content deluge” we already experience. Maybe the audio option is the best solution here: read if you have the time, listen if you don’t.
- Recaps/“every post is a great place to start”: I’ll admit that I recoiled slightly when I read this. It struck me as treating our stories too much like the dreaded C word: content. Of course every word is important! I’m bleeding on the (digital) page for my readers! But then I took a deep breath and had another sip of coffee, and maybe you’re onto something.
Here’s what I mean: I’ve approached Substack as a way to transfer stories I’ve written in a word document onto the internet for others to read and interact with. But maybe that’s just not what Substack is for. There is obviously no shortage of fiction writers here but what if the average Substack fiction reader is looking for something else? I’m not saying that the traditional short story or novel needs to die but maybe it’s ok for it to look different on THIS platform.
Anyway, I apologize for the wall of text but you’ve given me a lot to think about and I appreciate the dialogue.
Same! I think my take is that _if_ it is important for a writer that people -- plural, increasing in number over time -- read their work, they must accept that they are in the service-provision business.
In the business of service-provision, only two things matter:
1. People know you are providing a service
2. People need the service you are providing.
There is a lot writers and other artists can learn from service design and user experience design here that is useful.
As a writer, do you know _why_ people read your work? Answer: it's not because they like it. How they feel about a work doesn't matter. Rather, it's that a need they have is met. If a writer cannot articulate what that need is, then the writer should start there and do some thinking, or surveying.
Once you can articulate why your audience gravitates to you using the language of service, then you can do something strategically about it: are there just too few people who have that need and you need to target a larger or different need? Do people just not _know_ about the service you provide (e.g., the obscurity problem)?
All that to say, that's kind of where my thoughts start as someone who reads substack fiction.
I wouldn't worry or differentiate what you or any artist does from "content creation." I think folks really need to get real here: every consumer of any art is bombarded for their attention, and every writer with a readership has been able to pluck someone's attention from the vapor. Most people just don't know why and they don't really know where to start.
Now, some people will be like "ick, don't business my art," and if that's the case - okie dokie.
I am over 980 straight days of publishing short fiction. Over 1460 total. There's just no viable market for it here and I'm one of the extremely lucky ones with a good paid subscriber base.
I lean toward thinking that if Substack (or the Internet for that matter) was around when I was starting out, I’d have never finished my first novel (which stunk BTW but someone bought it, and the next ones got better). This medium creates too much psychological addiction to instant feedback, and writing a novel doesn’t work that way for me.
That’s an interesting thought. Publishing fiction on a social network like Substack introduces a potential feast or famine dynamic unless you’re very careful about keeping your head down and just doing the work.
I have the same feelings, if it’s any consolation. Although new to Substack, I’m coming to view it primarily as an engagement and productivity tool. Engagement, as in what I’m doing right now — Hello, Daniel! — and productivity as in keeping me on track to produce content for repurposing in book form on Amazon KDP.
As for other serial fiction platforms, I’m only familiar with Kindle Vella, which hasn’t been successful for me. I’m told that those who already have a couple of novels available on Kindle do better.
I’ve sort of gone the other direction: a lot of my stories here were first published as ebooks on Amazon (I’ve removed them though). Never looked into Vella.
It feels like there could be something really special for fiction writers here and I’ve seen a few others that look like they’ve “made it”. If nothing else I want to keep experimenting with both form and content to see what sticks.
Thanks for this Daniel. It feels good to know there are other writers struggling with this. I’ve focused on pretty much only publishing short stories for many of the challenges mentioned about serialized fiction. Sometimes it feels like the only people that would be interested in reading my stories are other Substack writers stuck in the same boat. We just trade views and take turns plugging holes in a sinking ship.
One thing I’ve realized after having so many folks saying “Hey! That sounds like me!” is that I need to be very clear with myself about my goals for the platform. If I want to slowly grow my readership, cultivating a core group of dedicated subscribers, then I can probably follow my current path. But if I want to see any sort of exponential improvement, or (God forbid) make money from my writing, then doing the same thing as everyone else probably won’t work.
I don’t have any answers but I think my questions are improving, if that makes sense.
I see where you're coming from, to coin a phrase. But writing fiction is an addiction (coined another one). And it's a lot of fun. So we'll just keep doing it.
I'd love to read more of your thoughts on writing in general. I feel the rush of putting out some posts I am proud of, having some sitting in my drafts, and growing. But it is true, putting yourself out there has ebbs and flows. I try to focus on the aforementioned joy of writing, and only peak at analytics here and there. I'd like to hear more about your writing journey. Like when did you know you were meant to do this?
There's a C.S. Lewis quote about our joy not being complete until it's shared with others. So growth on here can mean both validation that your writing is connecting with people as well as a celebration of something you enjoy. But having proper expectations of that growth (along with knowing what exactly will connect with folks) is the hard part.
I'm not sure I would use the phrase "meant to do this". I love creating things; sometimes that comes out via words, sometimes via creating silly images for my posts, sometimes I noodle around on my guitar and pretend I'm Jack White/Black. One of my biggest problems is that I'm a terminal hobbyist - I love so many different things that I have trouble focusing on one. Let's revisit this conversation in a year and see what plans Fate has in store for my writing career :)
Because if that's what's really happening, the US and Europe is at war right now and the enemy is already within our borders and planning on ethnically cleansing the citizens.
I can't think of anything more important to write about, and try and warn everyone, most importantly, because it all appears to be true and I don't know what to do because I don't want my family to lose their homeland.
I know an author who wrote an outstanding 9,000 page novel about mob rivalries in 1960s New York... maybe he should put that on Substack (although the formatting might be impossible in places, and it might take a literally thousands of posts).
I really enjoyed this, Daniel! Quite the coincidence that this post caught my eye—it mirrors the themes i speak of in my one and only post here on substack. Bottom line: we as writers want the satisfaction of connecting with the reader. To know you’ve been heard completes the conversation. An engaged comment (to me anyway) is worth a hundred likes. Keep on writing. We are listening.
You could be telling my story 😂
I feel like I could have written this myself. As a new author, I'm finding that marketing is way tougher than I initially thought. Do you have a local writers' group? That has been really helpful for me in terms of being connected with a writing community and potential readers. Keep up the good work. :)
I’m glad this resonated with you. I don’t have a writers group (unless you count the regulars at my local Starbucks). To be honest I’ve never looked into it but I appreciate the suggestion.
Yup. Similiar experience here. Very. I deleted my fiction substack. Gone. Gulp.
I’m sorry that happened. I go back and forth between being amazed that anyone actually reads my posts and feeling like I could never compete with people that have even 100 subscribers.
Anyway, thanks for stopping by and I hope you keep writing fiction even if it isn’t posted here.
Yes. Am writing for a publisher right now. Which is nice. It can feel like shouting in the wilderness here. I was glad to stop by.
Relatable.
I do this part a million times a year:
“So you quit Substack, and you quit writing, and you quit the gym for good measure.
But only for like 30 minutes.
Then you double down. “
So I’m both encouraged and frightened by your comment. I can still (mostly) count my subscribers using my fingers and toes, and you have… a bit more than that 😁
On one hand, I think: “Oh wow, SHE still struggles with this? We are so similar!”
On the other hand, I think: “Oh wow, she STILL struggles with this? I will never escape this cursed cycle.”
Six of one, half a dozen of the other as they say 🤷♂️
Thanks for the comment and I hope you have a great day.
I’m pretty sure it works that way all the way to the top 😝I’d imagine it’s the ones who don’t double down afterwards that don’t get there. (“There” being an ever moving target—“reach for the moon and you’ll a land amidst the stars” etc…)
One thing I've been wondering is whether even a fiction post that's a few thousand words is still too long for the time-constrained, over-subscribed, over-worked, under-slept would-be-reader. I often find I get two or three paragraphs in before I realize I have things to do.
For fiction podcasts the problems are similar: no one's going to start in the middle, and once you've done enough, people are going to make the gut-check as to whether they have enough time to even start something new.
I think this is where brief, strong recaps play a role. I wish more writers on Substack assumed no one is going to go back and read anything else, that the reader is going to start on that one post - and so every post must be designed to be a great first place to start.
I also frankly wish more substack writers recorded their work and added the audio to each post. Consider that would-be readers must choose whether to read or do literally anything else. But if it's also a podcast, they can get some shit done.
So much to digest here. I think you have some amazing suggestions even though I’m guilty of most of the fiction sins you’ve listed: longish posts, no recaps, no audio.
This likely deserves a longer conversation than is available via comments but:
- Totally agree about audio. I plan to go back and record each chapter eventually. My problem is that I have a tendency to shoot for the moon so I get bogged down in the minutiae of mics and voices and ambience even though all I really need to do is record a simple transcription.
- Shorter posts: I only post once a week at the moment. Shortening the posts even further would double/triple the roll out of the story (that seems like a negative to me from a readers perspective but I could be wrong). I could increase my release rate instead but I feel like that contributes to the “content deluge” we already experience. Maybe the audio option is the best solution here: read if you have the time, listen if you don’t.
- Recaps/“every post is a great place to start”: I’ll admit that I recoiled slightly when I read this. It struck me as treating our stories too much like the dreaded C word: content. Of course every word is important! I’m bleeding on the (digital) page for my readers! But then I took a deep breath and had another sip of coffee, and maybe you’re onto something.
Here’s what I mean: I’ve approached Substack as a way to transfer stories I’ve written in a word document onto the internet for others to read and interact with. But maybe that’s just not what Substack is for. There is obviously no shortage of fiction writers here but what if the average Substack fiction reader is looking for something else? I’m not saying that the traditional short story or novel needs to die but maybe it’s ok for it to look different on THIS platform.
Anyway, I apologize for the wall of text but you’ve given me a lot to think about and I appreciate the dialogue.
Same! I think my take is that _if_ it is important for a writer that people -- plural, increasing in number over time -- read their work, they must accept that they are in the service-provision business.
In the business of service-provision, only two things matter:
1. People know you are providing a service
2. People need the service you are providing.
There is a lot writers and other artists can learn from service design and user experience design here that is useful.
As a writer, do you know _why_ people read your work? Answer: it's not because they like it. How they feel about a work doesn't matter. Rather, it's that a need they have is met. If a writer cannot articulate what that need is, then the writer should start there and do some thinking, or surveying.
Once you can articulate why your audience gravitates to you using the language of service, then you can do something strategically about it: are there just too few people who have that need and you need to target a larger or different need? Do people just not _know_ about the service you provide (e.g., the obscurity problem)?
All that to say, that's kind of where my thoughts start as someone who reads substack fiction.
I wouldn't worry or differentiate what you or any artist does from "content creation." I think folks really need to get real here: every consumer of any art is bombarded for their attention, and every writer with a readership has been able to pluck someone's attention from the vapor. Most people just don't know why and they don't really know where to start.
Now, some people will be like "ick, don't business my art," and if that's the case - okie dokie.
I think you’ve nailed it with your first paragraph: it really does come down to supply and demand.
But that’s an end of the journey realization and there’s a whole arc for writers to go through before they get there, right?
1. I’m a writer. If I write well people will find me
2. I’m a writer. And maybe I need to do a bit of marketing as well
3. I’m a writer and a marketer. And I also need to make sure my writing fits into people’s busy schedules.
4. I’m a writer and a marketer and there are SO MANY people just like me. I need to refine my niche and find my (10/100/1,000) true fans.
I would assume most folks get to step 2 or maybe 2-1/2 and just overwhelmed and give up.
I prefer audio myself and like you I like something short I htink I have the atttention span of a toddler
and the spelling of one too
I am over 980 straight days of publishing short fiction. Over 1460 total. There's just no viable market for it here and I'm one of the extremely lucky ones with a good paid subscriber base.
I am in awe of your commitment.
Thanks. Sometimes it feels like my institutional commitment is imminent.
I lean toward thinking that if Substack (or the Internet for that matter) was around when I was starting out, I’d have never finished my first novel (which stunk BTW but someone bought it, and the next ones got better). This medium creates too much psychological addiction to instant feedback, and writing a novel doesn’t work that way for me.
That’s an interesting thought. Publishing fiction on a social network like Substack introduces a potential feast or famine dynamic unless you’re very careful about keeping your head down and just doing the work.
Ditto to all the previous comments.
And streaming word stories, brilliant idea! Are you listening substack?
Comparison is the thief of joy… and yet, whilst knowing this to be true, we still do it.
Love this post - thank you!
Glad you found it. If nothing else the response to this post has made me realize that so many of us feel similarly. It’s nice to not be the only one.
You’re definitely not alone.
I have the same feelings, if it’s any consolation. Although new to Substack, I’m coming to view it primarily as an engagement and productivity tool. Engagement, as in what I’m doing right now — Hello, Daniel! — and productivity as in keeping me on track to produce content for repurposing in book form on Amazon KDP.
As for other serial fiction platforms, I’m only familiar with Kindle Vella, which hasn’t been successful for me. I’m told that those who already have a couple of novels available on Kindle do better.
I’ve sort of gone the other direction: a lot of my stories here were first published as ebooks on Amazon (I’ve removed them though). Never looked into Vella.
It feels like there could be something really special for fiction writers here and I’ve seen a few others that look like they’ve “made it”. If nothing else I want to keep experimenting with both form and content to see what sticks.
Agreed. I’m still tempted, however, to behave like a network that deep-sixes new TV shows after three episodes if success isn’t immediately apparent.
That’s how Firefly got cancelled! I’m still salty about that one 😁
Thanks for this Daniel. It feels good to know there are other writers struggling with this. I’ve focused on pretty much only publishing short stories for many of the challenges mentioned about serialized fiction. Sometimes it feels like the only people that would be interested in reading my stories are other Substack writers stuck in the same boat. We just trade views and take turns plugging holes in a sinking ship.
One thing I’ve realized after having so many folks saying “Hey! That sounds like me!” is that I need to be very clear with myself about my goals for the platform. If I want to slowly grow my readership, cultivating a core group of dedicated subscribers, then I can probably follow my current path. But if I want to see any sort of exponential improvement, or (God forbid) make money from my writing, then doing the same thing as everyone else probably won’t work.
I don’t have any answers but I think my questions are improving, if that makes sense.
I see where you're coming from, to coin a phrase. But writing fiction is an addiction (coined another one). And it's a lot of fun. So we'll just keep doing it.
I'd love to read more of your thoughts on writing in general. I feel the rush of putting out some posts I am proud of, having some sitting in my drafts, and growing. But it is true, putting yourself out there has ebbs and flows. I try to focus on the aforementioned joy of writing, and only peak at analytics here and there. I'd like to hear more about your writing journey. Like when did you know you were meant to do this?
There's a C.S. Lewis quote about our joy not being complete until it's shared with others. So growth on here can mean both validation that your writing is connecting with people as well as a celebration of something you enjoy. But having proper expectations of that growth (along with knowing what exactly will connect with folks) is the hard part.
I'm not sure I would use the phrase "meant to do this". I love creating things; sometimes that comes out via words, sometimes via creating silly images for my posts, sometimes I noodle around on my guitar and pretend I'm Jack White/Black. One of my biggest problems is that I'm a terminal hobbyist - I love so many different things that I have trouble focusing on one. Let's revisit this conversation in a year and see what plans Fate has in store for my writing career :)
Thanks for the comment!
I've been considering writing a series on this book by Solzhenitsyn, it appears it's been banned from publication in the US and most of Europe.
This one on why mass immigration: - https://files.catbox.moe/pti3tl.jpg
And this one - https://files.catbox.moe/khk98o.jpg
Because if that's what's really happening, the US and Europe is at war right now and the enemy is already within our borders and planning on ethnically cleansing the citizens.
I can't think of anything more important to write about, and try and warn everyone, most importantly, because it all appears to be true and I don't know what to do because I don't want my family to lose their homeland.
I know an author who wrote an outstanding 9,000 page novel about mob rivalries in 1960s New York... maybe he should put that on Substack (although the formatting might be impossible in places, and it might take a literally thousands of posts).
I really enjoyed this, Daniel! Quite the coincidence that this post caught my eye—it mirrors the themes i speak of in my one and only post here on substack. Bottom line: we as writers want the satisfaction of connecting with the reader. To know you’ve been heard completes the conversation. An engaged comment (to me anyway) is worth a hundred likes. Keep on writing. We are listening.